Recently, Nancy and I had the opportunity to visit with Sahl and Faye Spano in Sherman Oaks, California, a suburb of Los Angeles. The visit had been prearranged several weeks earlier, so when we were delayed because of car problems and arrived considerably late, we expected to find our host less likely to be in a mood for divulging his secrets about teaching and playing the oboe. But nothing could have been further from the truth!

We were immediately led to seats in Sahl's gorgeous backyard and issued the appropriate drinks for the occasion: gins and tonic. It was an unusually hot day! As we swilled down the gin, all becoming slightly tipsy, the interview began. I marveled at the actual studio in which Sahl teaches: a special structure attached via a breezeway to the rear of his garage. Nancy, camera in hand, took photos inside and out of this building in which she had spent so many hours as Sahl's young oboe student. Nowadays, Sahl's teaching load is down to just a few students from his original weekly load of 50! He spoke to us with warm memories of that exciting past.

The characters in the interview are:

Sahl: Salvatore Spano
Faye: Faye Spano
Nancy: Nancy Lehrer
Chas: Charles-David Lehrer

Chas: What we would like to know first is how you got started in teaching the oboe in this fabulous studio building and why you do this thing in the first place!

Sahl: Almost in the past tense, why I did it! Well, it was a choice. Maybe there are certain things which are innate in certain people and that for one reason I found teaching to be the most fulfilling part of the music business. I got as much enjoyment out of seeing Nancy grow and become more proficient as I would had I been up in front of an audience. So I guess I got my kicks out of watching my students grow. I think there's an ego trip in that.

Nancy: You became known as the teacher in the San Fernando Valley to come to if you wanted to learn from scratch. There was no doubt. My junior high teacher said to me, you have to study with this guy, Sahl Spano. He gave me your name and your phone number and I called you up.

Sahl: Well, that's the side that I didn't know was going on. I just did my thing and I just thought my student clientele grew only because I was doing for them what they needed. And whether anybody was aware of it or not aware of it, I never did know. But the fulfillment I think is the biggest part of it. And I think another reason I was successful was that I put the priorities there. The students came first, even before a call. There were many calls I turned down because I was set up on Saturday here with twenty students in ten hours, a student every 30 minutes. The money I got taking a playing job wasn't worth it if I was looking at it from a money side. The ego trip came in greater awards: seeing my students progress rather than my playing progress. They could depend on and rely on the fact that they had a lesson scheduled and it was to happen. I didn't cancel it because I got a call to work somewhere else that day for $10 more. So I think that was a part of the reason for the success in the teaching, that I was there when they needed me.

Chas: How did you eventually set up the studio. I mean, there is nobody who has a studio like this. Several of the people I worked with at university level got some dreary old room for a studio. And when I went to their houses I found out that these guys were not set up to teach at all. So how did you actually come to create a studio in your back yard so when the kids came in it was comfortable: a place for the parents to sit, the kids' spot, the reed table out there, the mirror... How did all that evolve?

Sahl: Well, I realized first of all, that I had a great number of students. I carried maybe 50 a week, plus a reserve of 5 to 8 students that were always on standby call. The moment that one of the 50 could not come, Faye would make a phone call. I taught all day Saturday, all day Sunday, Tuesday and Thursday evenings, and then even at high school I'd stay on for a couple hours every day. So you ask why I needed the studio, the family needed it. In the beginning I taught in the house, the den was converted to a studio. I had the piano in there and it was right by the front door. Well, in those days my girls were young but they knew that on Saturday and Sunday they got lost! As they became teenagers, they found places to go rather than be around the house. And then the living room became the waiting room. To me my students came first, I just always felt that way, before my playing, before my personal life. I think the need to get the students out of the house was important to my family. After all, I had the space in the backyard and I figured I would spend the money on a building that was mine for the purpose of teaching. And that saved the family. I think Faye will confirm that because she went through hell in those days.

Faye: Yes, we had the space, a big long lot with fruit trees.

Sahl: And there was a big discussion about where to put the studio, whether I should put it way behind the walnut tree and be that much further away... And then too, for chamber music, I wanted a place I could rehearse quintets and do things on my own, because I was still playing in spite of all this. The number of students I carried did make a difference, but I think I am first an educator, then oboist. I have often thought of myself that way. I would never teach anything that I myself could not do or demonstrate or perform and so I would often work as hard as a student sometimes on some of the advanced materials.

Chas: That makes what you were doing very different from the kind of teaching that I experienced where the teacher was very high strung, in some cases because a performance was coming that night. And when I went in for a lesson I was basically learning second-hand like, Oh my God, that's what I'm going to be experiencing in a few years if I ever make it! It was not like the teacher sat with you and explained carefully exactly how you have to proceed to get to that point. It's just suddenly, there it was, and I thought, do I really want to do this thing! And I experienced this with several famous teachers, and they were all crazy in the lesson. They didn't have time to show you how to do this thing properly. They were very preoccupied with their reeds and their schmieds.!

Nancy: It took something exceptional to get one of my famous teachers not to look out his window and finger his solo for that night!

Sahl: Well, I was playing too. And in my little world it was probably as important; it may have only been the rinky- dink symphony down the corner, but my reputation was as important to me as his was with his famous orchestra. So, I was going through that too, but I wouldn't let it affect my students.

Chas: What kind of education did you have?

Sahl: I have my bachelors degree from the University of Southern California in Music Education. I majored on oboe and I was going to get a degree in performance. But once I reached my second year, my college advisor, Max Krone, talked me out of it. We realized that a degree in performance amounted to only a paper that says you can play the oboe. And I knew I could do that with or without the paper. I graduated from USC in 1948 with my BME. I got my teaching credential and I studied oboe all four years with Henri de Buescher.

Chas: Was he your main oboe teacher there?

Sahl: He and Lloyd Rathbun. Lloyd was at Warner Brothers Studios, he was in commercial work and de Buescher was in the Los Angeles Philharmonic. They were both on the faculty at USC and I studied with both.

Chas: What kind of oboe did de Buescher play when you were with him?

Sahl: Cabart. And he used his so-called De Buescher model, a semi-plateau system. They made it especially for him. It was open hole on the G and the A and did not have the split ring on the right hand. My first instrument that I got through him was like his and was made with his name on it.

Chas: When I was a student in the East I played a Lorée oboe like practically everyone else. And during that period of time the Lorée oboe was so problematic insofar as low pitch was concerned that I really suffered as a student playing one. The Lorée I owned had come directly from Tabuteau and it was at least 20 cents flat. I had to make reeds that were very short to get up to the pitch, which meant the reeds themselves became bright. So I was right back to where I had started from with a junk horn. Tabuteau didn't seem to care: there he sat retired in France with flat oboes and a great tone, way out of the Philadelphia Orchestra scene by that time. So, many students buying a Lorée at that time suffered, this was in the late 1950s when there was no way we could get up to the pitch without a short reed. Now you know what Ralph Gomberg did, he was smart, he had Al Laubin build instruments for him at sharp pitch so he could play in tune in the BSO. So it was not until I went to him and bought a Laubin that I ever got up to the pitch! He took one look at my Lorée and said sell it! I told him it was from Tabuteau himself. Gomberg said all the more emphatically, sell it!

Sahl: Fantastic! That really makes my heart feel good because I never went along with the crowd, I fought everybody. I used to get Lorées here; I had a connection in France and I would get monthly at least one instrument maybe two and I never could find one that turned me on The same problem you had, they were flat. If I got a good sound on it, it was low pitched. Soon as I figured how to get the pitch up there I was caught with a thin blowing horn, and thought I might as well stay with my Cabart. And I went the same way. I went through a Laubin and used that for years and up until recently I still kept trying Lorées. A year ago, I got one with a plastic upper joint, actually I had two, and I couldn't get used to the center notes the E, F and G.

Nancy: Lorée is going the opposite way now: they are making oboes sharp. They even make a super sharp one for use In Vienna. But Lorée is basically much better now than when Chick (Chas) got started and as a matter of fact we both play only Lorée oboes at this time and these instruments are outstanding.

Sahl: Well, you know I play Mirafone now but my horn, because of extreme use, is no longer playing in tune. So I am looking. As a matter of fact I was going to call you and ask you to keep your eyes open for a Lorée for me. If you find one that you love but don't need, let me know it! Before I die, I want to play on a good quality Lorée and see if I've missed something all my life.

Chas: Well Sahl, Lorée made a series about two years ago that is really dynamite. One of my students bought one from Peter Klatt at Forrest's and it is so very fantastic. The tuning is outstanding, the pitch is perfect, you can put any kind of reed on there and sound real!

Sahl: Well, the reason I ended up with Mirafones is that I had the opportunity to try their entire stock when selecting for my student needs.

Chas: In any case, it sounds like you were trying to find for your students a horn that worked.

Sahl: That's basically it. And I was grateful for the Mirafone connection. The Mirafone Corporation opened to me many new aspects of the oboe business. I became the oboe consultant for the company and did everything - reaming, adjusting, testing, and controlling the quality of the instruments being shipped out. I also represented the company at many of the state and national music teachers conventions, including IDRS conventions.

Chas: What kind of volume was coming through at that time?

Sahl: Well, it varied. It has decreased in the last year. I haven't been there in a year and a half, that's the reason I've lost track completely.

Chas: Did Mirafone give you tools for this?

Sahl: Oh yes. I had all the reamers at my disposal but some of the tools were my own. I bought what I needed as I went on. I started out with a full time repairman working with me and I would just test them after he, Al Grant, did the work.

Chas: Was Hans Kreul making all the Mirafones at that time?

Faye: Yes. We went to visit him in Germany in Tubingen and saw his shop.

Chas: Why did Mirafone, a tuba firm, take to distributing Hans Kreul's oboes?

Sahl: Howard Lockie was president of the company and he was expanding. He had started out with tubas and brass.

Chas: To change the direction a little, let's go back in years somewhat. When did you take your first oboe lessons?

Sahl: My first oboe teacher taught at the Baxter-Northup Music Store. I used to go to the store and take my lessons after closing hours. This was at the time I won the PTA scholarship in high school.

Chas: What year was that?

Sahl: Let's see, they gave only two scholarships in those days, one vocal and one instrumental. Then they got more money and broke it down into districts and gave more. I was in high school in 10th or 11th grade, so it was in 1942.

Chas: Did you have to go into the army after high school?

Sahl: I went into the military. In fact, I never graduated with my class. I went into the service before I was even eighteen. I enlisted.

Faye: Didn't you enlist because they needed an oboist?

Sahl: Oh yes! I wanted to be sure that I would get into the army band. The union, in the 1940s during that period of World War 11, was arranging auditions with the military. I was accepted at the Santa Ana Base, where I played with the Armed Forces Band and Orchestra.

Chas: And who were you studying with at that time?

Sahl: De Buescher. I had started with de Buescher at the time of the PTA scholarship. was a hundred dollars in those days and it w sent to your teacher. De Buescher charged in $3.00 a lesson.

Reeds for Students

Chas: I'd like to talk again about the lessons you gave in your studio. Nancy once mentioned to me that when she came into a lesson with you, you had a great number of reeds there for kids to select from and buy.

Sahl: Well, I got into mass production. But first of all, it all goes back to the question, are you a teacher primarily or are you playing primarily. Now I probably played more concerts at that time than even people in the major orchestras. So I was always on top of the horn. But still my responsibilities to the students came first. And when I look at why my students were more successful than others, there were several factors: my approach to teaching and my responsibility to be there when they needed me and that included reeds and the adjustment of the horn. I would never let them play on a horn that I couldn't play on. Every lesson I would run a scale on their horns first.

Chas: How many reeds would you have to prepare a week in order to satisfy the insatiable appetite of young oboists?

Sahl: I bought my cane by the thousand pieces at a time from Madam Ghys and also de Gourdon at Lorée. Faye did all the secretarial work on that aspect, I would just dictate the letters. I could never have run that program without her. When you're dealing with 50 students and all those possibilities of changes, well I would make at least 30 or 40 reeds a week just to have them available. I figured about one per student each week. And then the better students would come and take two or three each week. I'd lay out this batch and then they would go through them and pick out what they wanted. I'd free up the reeds to match their horns. I would not let them play on store reeds. The first thing I did when I got a new student was break their reed! And we did it ceremonially. Every time I had to go to a rehearsal I'd be whittling. If I did not make at least two dozen reeds in a rehearsal it wasn't worth my evening out! In fact I used to get kidded about it. But I'd never miss a cue, I could count 50 bars and be scraping.

Faye: You made a lot of conductors very nervous!

Sahl: Yeah, I know! I lost a couple of good jobs because of that. I sharpened my knives during the loud sections like during a cymbal crash! My knife would be in rhythm with the music. I had it down to a science. So many strokes on one side, turn it over, soft crow, put it in the box and finish it the next day.

Chas: Who were some of the kids who came through your studio? You must have taught several hundred students.

Sahl: I took mainly beginning students because my satisfaction came in seeing them progress. And there was therefore a big turnover as they moved on to other teachers. I did not enjoy working with advanced students. I taught at USC for a while and at Cal State and I really didn't enjoy that caliber of student; I just couldn't reshape them, they were too diehard. They had bad habits and I'm too much of a fundamentalist and can't turn my back to a strange-looking embouchure. Even if they sounded good I could not say that it was justified.

Chas: Who were some of your more illustrious students?

Sahl: There's Lon Bissell who just got first in Cincinnati and Jan Eberle. Also Tom Boyd was first in Honolulu for about ten years, and now he is back in L.A. Terry Row is in the San Francisco area now. You know Michael Tilson Thomas was a student of mine! His father made a drawing, a caricature of me teaching Michael. Michael played with me in all the community orchestras around here. Also, Dr. Scott Rogo, the noted parapsychologist, was a former oboe student of mine. David Weiss, first oboist in the L.A. Philharmonic was not a private student of mine but was in a band I conducted when I taught high school. I coached him on all the material we did in that group. Of course there was Nancy Bonar (Lehrer) and Peter Christ. Charley Owens and Greg Donovetsky studied with me. Bill Bonnes is another, also Marc Maslow and Cathy Robinson who is one of the top oboists in L.A. now. And Gordon Lazarus just got his doctorate from USC. Fred Beerstein is still playing and teaching.

Chas: I'd like to go way back now and get some early data on you, Sahl; like when was this man born, who were his early influences, who was the person who put the oboe in his hands. Readers love this kind of stuff!

Sahl: O.K. I was born in New York City in 1925, a good Italian boy. We came to California when I was about eight years old. Dad was a carpenter. I think I got my manual dexterity from him. I've even got the ability to do a complete overhaul on an oboe! In any case, I worked right alongside Dad. We built the back end of the house together. That house was in Southwest L.A. I have a brother and two sisters.

Chas: When did your interest in music begin and did being an Italian have anything to do with it? I ask the question this way because I'm from an Italian family, too. My mother was Sicilian and it was made known to me at a very young age that music was OK to do because I was of Italian heritage. Particularly opera was worth getting involved in! My mother listened to the Met broadcasts every Saturday as she did her ironing. Opera was the most OK of all kinds of music and Italian Opera stood at the top. I did hear the words Mozart and Wagner spoken with reverence but it certainly was Verdi and Donizetti and Company who were considered best. Was it like this for you?

Faye: There was no music in Sahl's family. Sahl was the first and only in that family to do music!

Sahl: In fact when my interest grew, well, that was not Dad's idea of what a young man should be devoting his life to. He should instead get out and do hard work and be productive in society that way!

Chas: When did you first realize that you were interested in music?

Sahl: I was in the seventh grade and one of the neighbors had an old Albert system clarinet. For five dollars I talked my folks into buying it. I met with the junior high school director before school and he taught me how to finger it and I got so turned on that I learned to play it. Again, it may not have even been talent, it was just dedication and I still feel that half the success is determination. You work hard at something and you will succeed.

Chas: Was this junior high director the first person to actually get you involved in music?

Sahl: Yes. His name was Al Caligary. And it was nice of him, as I didn't even know him before this. I just came with the Albert clarinet in an old shoe box. I progressed so fast under him! I got into the orchestra at school on clarinet, then I got a better instrument which my parents bought. In Dad's eyes it was a waste of money. I never really studied privately on clarinet, it was just what I got at school and from my own practicing as hard as I could. I would practice five and six hours a day on the thing. I ended up concertmaster of one of the bands at school I played in one of the community bands, too. I remember playing the clarinet cadenza in The Wedding of the Winds, old band literature! when I was in 9th grade, the All City Orchestra had just bought a new oboe and the group was open to anyone who would agree to play the instrument! So that's how I got an oboe. I worked on it on my own over the summer and Al Caligary sold me the first reeds at $2.00 apiece. Now, Dad was only making $20.00 a week, so those reeds became a big issue. So, I would do without rather than tell him that I needed a new reed, especially if I broke it the next day after I bought it! That was hard. After that, I remember Mother taking me to Baxter-Northup downtown to buy a reed and that's where I met Bill Boucher who was my first oboe teacher. Bill never became a professional player, but he was a well-schooled, very dedicated person. I used to meet him after the store had closed. I used to have to take the streetcar across town to get there. He charged me $2.00 for a lesson and I'd be there for two hours.

Chas: Did you hear oboe playing in L.A. at that time in the Philharmonic or in the theatres?

Sahl: No. I don't remember going to concerts or anything prior to my lessons with Bill. I think that Boucher was the first legitimate oboe player I heard.

Nancy: Did he play on short French-scraped reeds?

Sahl: It was a V scrape. It was quite a thin sound.

Chas: How did you get to de Buescher?

Sahl: It was not until I won the PTA scholarship in high school that I got to study with him. You had to study with someone in the Philharmonic or at a university as part of the deal.

Chas: What piece did you play to win the PTA competition?

Sahl: It was one of the Handel Sonatas.

Chas: Did Bill Boucher tell you how to do the ornamentation of the slow movements?

Sahl: No. He did not even discuss it. I owe that information on ornamention to de Buescher. He was such a great artist! Everything that I am or have in my success I owe to him. I started around 1942 with de Buescher. In '43 1 went into the service and in '45 1 went off to college.

Nancy: Did de Buescher teach you about reeds?

Sahl: No. The reedwork is something I developed on my own.

Chas: What repertoire did de Buescher teach you?

Sahl: We worked out of the Brod mainly and then the Barret was secondary to that. He used the second set of Six Sonatas in Brod.

Chas: Were they available at that time with the bass line?

Sahl: Yes. That's the very one I still use.

Chas: Did he back you up on that bass line at the piano, did he realize the harmonies?

Sahl: Yes. He sat at the keyboard. He was a great artist at the keyboard. I do that with some of my students, too.

Chas: What else did you do with him?

Sahl: Orchestral studies in the Vade Mecum. He put a lot of importance on orchestral literature. He taught me very little solo literature, the emphasis was not there on the solo concerti and the rest. I guess because in a sense he was practical. He thought if the student was equipped technically first, then that student could play anything.

Chas: How is it that you came to know so much solo repertory?

Sahl: Because of the needs of my students over the years. It was not for me, because I wasn't out doing solo repertoire. But they had a need, so I would buy it and work it up and then teach it. That's the reason I've got thousands of dollars worth of music in the studio. If I ever die, I'll let you guys come in and take it!

Chas: When a kid came in to learn a solo piece, could you back him up on the orchestra reduction at the piano?

Nancy: He is about as good on that as you, Chick!

Chas: Gee, he must be a great arteest!

Sahl: I've gotten better in the last couple of years because I've been teaching theory at college and so I'm playing much more piano. When I was teaching in the house, before we built the studio, I had the piano in the cramped space of the little den where I taught and I was used to accompanying the students on everything. But when I moved out to the more spacious studio I got out of the habit of doing it and it kind of got away from me. Once in a while I did it, but I had to turn my back to the student because of the new set-up and this was not satisfactory.

Nancy: He always played the bass lines on the oboe of the Brod studies.

Chas: When did you learn to play the piano?

Sahl: In college. The only lessons I ever had were in college.

Chas: Tell me more about your studies with de Buescher.

Sahl: Well, the big thing I got from de Buescher was hearing his vibrato. He never discussed it with me and I had a stomach vibrato at the time I went to study with him. But the semester I studied with Lloyd Rathbun, when de Buescher was away, I got into throat vibrato. I feel that it is a lot less strenuous than the former way. But that is a whole chapter in itself and very controversial!

Nancy: Yes, the last time I went up to the Mack Camp, Mack talked a lot about vibrato and specifically about using throat vibrato.

Sahl: Well, I heard him in Chicago, and he got on that subject and to be sure, it was not well received by everyone there. Some liked stomach vibrato, others throat.

Chas: Did you go right into public school teaching after college?

Sahl: Yes. I remember that I was on an accelerated program and graduated in three years in 1948 with my bachelors. I finished in February and had married Faye in January. I started teaching public school in February. I took the city exam and placed "number one" so I had my choice of schools in which to teach.

Chas: When did you meet Faye?

Sahl: One summer during college I took off for Chautauqua in New York to study with Lois Warm. Lois was in the Pittsburgh Symphony at the time. I learned many things from her, particularly breath support. In any case I met Faye there, she is a singer.

Chas: What did you teach in the public schools?

Sahl: I taught instrumental music, had the band and the orchestra and really began to feel that teaching music came easy to me. I was a good teacher, I could take over a large class without any hang-ups, I turned out good ensembles. It was easy for me to do these things. I found I could motivate students to practice.

Nancy: Did you curse at them in Italian when they couldn't practice?

Sahl: Oh yes! Ma, stupido!!

Chas: I heard a lot of that from my grandmother, too!

Sahl: Well, I went from Gompers junior High in Southwest L.A. after three years or so, to University High School in West L.A.

Chas: When did you get your masters degree?

Sahl: After seven years of teaching I took advantage of money that had been set aside for me from a prize I won as an undergraduate as the one person "most likely to succeed". I went on scholarship and G.I. Bill too. I was already playing in the Summer Orchestra at Cal State and the scholarship grew out of that. That was great, everything was paid for. I was lucky. This all happened in 1955 when I got my first sabbatical from public school. So I graduated from Cal State with a Master of Arts and did an oboe recital. I also wrote a paper on playing the oboe and it covers everything from instrument repair to teaching the instrument.

Chas: Do you remember what pieces you played on that recital?

Sahl: Oh Lord! The Mozart Quartet, you know, the standard literature. The Britten Quartet was in there, also the Schumann Romances, something from each period of music history in which the oboe was used.

Chas: Who did you study oboe with at that time?

Sahl: No one. I prepared everything on my own, I knew what I was doing. As a matter of fact I taught oboe part-time on the Cal State faculty at the time.

Chas: Had you kept up your oboe practicing through all of the seven years of public school teaching?

Sahl: Oh yes! In fact I was starting to pick up students already. One was James McCollough who has since become a conductor. Also, I was beginning to pick up quite a bit of playing work. So everything started to fall into place.

Chas: What were the main gigs you played?

Sahl: Well, I played every symphony from Vegas to Bakersfield to L.A. to the San Diego Symphony. Every two miles there was a community symphony and I played most of these at one time or another. I was first oboe with the Long Beach Symphony for 12 years under Alberto Bolet.

Chas: What positions did you play?

Sahl: I played first oboe. In the beginning I might have played some second oboe to get my foot in the door. I'm not a good second, my mind wanders!

Chas: Let's get over to finding out how you got so involved with music theory.

Sahl: While I was on sabbatical leave, a position at Los Angeles City College became available and my name came up because they wanted a professor of woodwinds. So it was around 1967 that I went there as a woodwind specialist. I was teaching the band, and woodwind instruments, and chamber ensembles. I taught appreciation but no theory at that time. And I've been at the College ever since. I had a beginning woodwind class of 90 students, including 50 flutes! And it was a successful class. And remember I was teaching my oboe students at home, another 50 kids! So, I took a year off from college teaching and got into meditation. That college job had given me a nervous breakdown, literally! And during the year off I wrote my textbook on theory. I had started to teach theory the year before and gotten involved in the fundamentals. The book was published in 1976 and is called Fundamentals Limited. It's published by Kendall-Hunt. And when I think back to all this I remember that I was on call as first oboist to all the community symphonies, and because of all the work I had, I would cover the rehearsals with my students. All these students needed outlets to play and the rehearsals provided an opportunity for them to learn literature.

Chas: I want to ask you at this time about other oboe players in the L.A. area. How did Philip Memoli play?

Sahl: Real French. It was a very small sweet sound because he was primarily a recording musician who worked at the studios. I played next to him several times. I remember playing the second oboe part in the Mozart Symphonie Concertante with Memoli on the solo part and Gordon Schoenberg on first. It was so lucrative to be on call for that sort of thing!

Chas: How did Alexander Duvoir sound?

Sahl: He played up north in the San Francisco area. I heard him once and he had a very, very French sound, right out of the "old school. "

Chas: And Joseph Rizzo?

Sahl: Joe was in the Philharmonic for a very short time. He replaced de Buescher and was followed by Bert Gassman. Joe was from the Eastern School.

Chas: You mentioned earlier Gordon Schoenberg.

Sahl: Gordon was a de Buescher student. He was at Disney Studios and had technique like crazy, he is a fine musician. I played next to him a lot.

Chas: What were the Lym oboes like that Gordon played?

Sahl: I had a Lym oboe at one time. They are a lot like the Rigoutat oboe. I think your first impression is better than after you've had to live with it! They were very thick-walled instruments.

Chas: I want to ask a philosophical question. Now, I've made the decision to stop playing the oboe when I'm 60, no matter what. I'm stopping when I'm at the top of my career. I want to go out playing fabulous! I never want to experience the inevitable demise that takes place after that age. How do you feel about that?

Sahl: That's what I'm facing right now! The eyes are not as good, I'm having trouble with my horn and will soon have to go through the grief of getting and breaking in a new one. I've played all of the orchestral repertoire over and over. I'm scheduled to perform the Mozart Concertante soon and every time I do it I hope that that's the last time for it! It's not that I'm tired of playing it, it's just the risk. The law of averages says that I've got to blow it one of these times! And I don't want that to happen. And also I ask, is it worth the trouble pleasing demanding conductors who want to tear every little phrase apart. So, I'm getting to the point where I don't need all this any more in my life. I don't need that pressure. It's a tough decision. And I don't enjoy practicing the way that I used to. I would put in three hours a day even when I taught public school; I'd have the student teachers relieve me of some teaching so I could get my practice in. But I don't seem to want to do that anymore.

Chas: What do you think realistically will happen for you?

Sahl: I don't know. I probably will continue playing as long as we live in this area.

Chas: Besides the eyesight, do you find any other aspect that's weakening, that you have to fight hard to make it happen?

Sahl: No. just the eyes and the problem with the horn wearing out.

Chas: Do you feel the time is coming when your embouchure will weaken?

Sahl: Well, I'm playing on lighter reeds now. I'm no longer concerned anymore whether or not I'm playing as dark as the next guy. I'm playing for myself!

Chas: Could you describe the structure of the lessons you gave to your private oboe students?

Sahl: I think the success of my teaching program was based on my approach to it. I am very methodical, too much for some students. But most went along with me because of my reputation. For 90% of them it was a necessary means to an end. First of all, everyone was required to bring in a book into which I would write their assignments, particularly in the beginning. As they got more advanced it was not necessary. Then, I kept a chart, a log of their scales, of how fast they were playing them. And I'd check them semi-weekly or once a month. My approach I called the "ABC" approach: Every lesson and every practice session requires so much long-tone work, that's the "A" work.

Chas: Did every lesson begin with playing of long tones?

Sahl: It would vary. I had to keep in mind the mood I was in and the mood the student was in. The moment a kid walked in the door, I kind of sized him up. So depending on that, I might pull out something to read right away if I knew that he had a previous lesson that was real good.

Nancy: As I remember it, every lesson began with being able to slur an A1 down to a low C1 at least for the first year. If you couldn't do that, you never got to the next step!

Sahl: That's right. On some lessons we never left that.

Nancy: Right! And if I found that I couldn't do that, you looked for the problem: you checked the oboe, then checked the reed. If the reed was no good I knew I was to buy a new reed. Or make a new one.

Sahl: Yes, that was the reality each student had to know about. And the reason I had you slur to a low C1 was because I taught an embouchure that was set for that low C1. That was one of my basic concepts.

Nancy: Yes, I remember you tapping me on the shoulder one day and saying that I could move the reed into my mouth a little bit for a high A2. I'll never forget that lesson!

Sahl: Yes, life is not that simple! OK, now "B" was the scale work, technique. I taught almost all my technical work, other than actual music, by rote. All the scales were done by rote, also broken chord progressions. And then "C " was the musical material assigned. Also, I always started every lesson with an A' just to have the kids experience the tuning note for the orchestra. just to make them experience the pressure and responsibility of it. I would stand across the room; they were to play it straight, no vibrato and with a pure tone. And then when I was pleased, I would nod my head to begin the slur smoothly to the low C1 by way of a scale line without any break. I would look to see if the embouchure remained consistent for this. And I wanted them to do this effortlessly. After this I had a whole series of warm-up exercises for them to play.

Nancy: Did you ever write those down?

Sahl: Oh, yes. When I retire I'd like to write an oboe book with all of these materials. I've already started on this. In any case, I think the whole secret here is to be methodical, be organized, and have definite goals. Remember I was doing this with 50 different students every week and each was different, all those different personalities! Some little girls would get tears in their eyes the moment I raised my voice! The boys were often looking out the window paying no attention. I had to treat them all differently, they were all individual people. The important thing is that they knew where they were going. Very often I would sit with them and their notebooks to plan those goals. So if they wanted to develop a vibrato we would work towards that and check it off on the notebook. Also, as I've said before, being there when they need you means a lot! And then making it enjoyable in any way you can is important. All lessons were goal oriented with objectives clearly spelled out in their notebooks.

Nancy: A big part of the lessons I remember was the reading of the Sellner Duets which to me at that time were impossibly difficult. And you would always say, let's live dangerously! And we would read at a fast tempo!

Chas: Did you use the metronome in the lessons?

Sahl: Yes, I used it a great deal particularly in the "B" part of my work, the technical part. And I used the strobe for the long tone work. I'd make the kids look at the strobe and check the pitch constantly.

Nancy: Yes, he's got an old Strobeconn in the spinning dials! But now there are Korgs that will do that. Also, you taught vibrato using the Strobe.

Sahl: That's right. I would ask the kids to make the dial dance! I used creative teaching: I would often lay awake at night preparing creative things for the kids to do in the lessons.

Chas: What was the average amount of time a serious student studied with you before moving on?

Sahl: Usually I started them in junior high school and they stayed with me all through high school and did not move on to a new teacher until college. I encouraged them to go to a new teacher for college. But I did not enjoy seeing them go through radical changes when they went on. That's the sad part for some of them who went to study with top players.

Chas: What did you expect the "big ones" to teach your students.

Sahl: I had hoped that they would help my students mature. Now, I heard John Mack in Chicago a few years back. And he was saying many of the things that I tell my students. Perhaps in slightly different words, but nonetheless it was the same information.

Chas: Yes, we've both read that speech. It was published in the IDRS Journal as "Effective Guidance for the Young Oboist" and what he says is really just fabulous.

Sahl: Yes. And after I came back from hearing Mack I felt great, because here I was living in my own little world with my 50 students teaching them the same information that John Mack, a world-renowned oboist, was teaching! Actually there were no serious differences between what I believe and what John teaches. Part of what I try to accomplish the first year with students is to give them a nice tone, give them a vibrato, and then start to train them so they can play the instrument like a tool.

Chas: It sounds like you really have never had to worry about the future of your students because all those fundamentals were built in. Your kids couldn't fail because the groundwork was there!

Sahl: Exactly right. When they left me I felt that no one could do that much damage to them!

Chas: I've admired the idea of that couch in your studio for mama to sit down on and watch junior take a lesson.

Sahl: Yes. And also I have a workbench in there to repair the students' instruments. Ifthey came in with something broken or a pad missing, I fixed it before the lesson got under way.

Chas: I understand that when a kid came into a lesson you made him first go and brush his teeth in the bathroom you have built into the studio.

Sahl: Oh yes! My students had the cleanest teeth in town!!

[Select to enlarge]

Table of Contents