Introduction
Part I. Kreul & Moosmann bassoons
Part II. Hans Kreul oboes
Reflecting back on the 1984 I.D.R.S. Convention held in Graz, Austria, it seems an appropriate time to consider the double reed instruments being manufactured in the German speaking countries of the world. Knowing that I would be in Germany for some weeks during the summer of 1984, I wanted, if possible, to interview a German oboe and bassoon manufacturer. By interviewing the directors of Kreul & Moosmann bassoons, as well as the director of Kreul oboes, I was able to accomplish this objective. But, before beginning, I should mention that this interview needs an introductory clarification, in order to avoid what might easily become a logistically confusing situation.
Dating from 1919, Kreul oboes was founded in Tubingen, Germany, by Hans Kreul. Succeeded first by his son, Hans Kreul, Jr., Kreul oboes has been directed since 1980 by Hans Kreul's grandson, Hans-Joachim Kreul.
Tubingen is about an hour south of Stuttgart. On the other side of Stuttgart, to the northeast, lies a small city named Waiblingen. The Kreul & Moosmann bassoon factory is located in one of the oldest sections of Waiblingen. This less than four year old bassoonmaking venture has two co-directors - twentyseven year old Bernd Moosmann, and Helga Kreul, who is the wife of Mr. Kreul.
The interview which follows was done is two parts, and in two places. The first section was done at lunch in Waiblingen, and concerns the Kreul & Moosmann bassoon making activities. Directors Helga Kreul, and Bernd Moosmann were present, as well as the director of the 1984 Graz Convention, Werner Schulze. Mr. Schulze had just arrived from Vienna to pick up his new contrabassoon - the first in the world to go down to low A-flat. Needless to say, I was delighted to have Schulze present for the interview, and was grateful for the refreshingly candid comments he offered during the interview. However, lest confusion reign supreme, the reader might keep an eye out for which one of the four of us said what!
But on to Tubingen, where Hans-Joachim Kreul directs Kreul oboes. I spent an afternoon at the Tubingen factory, and then both the Kreuls and myself sat down for the second interview of the day, the "dinner" interview.
Kreul oboes. hardly anyone in the U.S. has ever seen one, right? Wrong. There are literally thousands of these instruments in the United States, but not one is stamped Kreul. As the reader will discover, Ben Storch imported hundreds of these instruments a year, and stamped them GORDET. Meanwhile, out in Valencia, California, hundreds of these instruments have been sold under the name Mirafone. Thus, the instruments themselves are known, but the correct name of the manufacturer is not.
Reflecting back on a wonderful day spent with the directors of these two factories, I cannot help but wish I played the bassoon. If I did, I know exactly what I would do. I would buy a new Kreul & Moosmann bassoon for a fraction of the cost of a new Heckel, and would then throw the bassoon into the back of the new car I could then (hopefully) afford to buy at the Porsche factory, conveniently located in nearby Stuttgart. Who could resist such a great combination?
Kreul & Moosmann bassoons: interview with Helga Kreul, Bernd Moosmann and Werner Schulze, Waiblingen, West Germany
NP: I'm really quite amazed to learn that the Kreul & Moosmann bassoon venture is not even four years old. How did it get started?
HK: In 1966, the Kohlert bassoon factory went bankrupt. It was bought by a nonmusician who was not even an instrument maker! So, these instruments got worse and worse. In October of 1982, the owner approached Mr. Moosmann about the possibility of buying the production. Mr. Moosmann was a bassoon maker, but he had had no experience selling instruments at that time. Since my husband and I had been selling instruments for a long time, we decided we would all buy Kohlert together. We started our new company in February of 1983, and Mr. Moosmann and myself are the directors. The bassoon factory itself is in Waiblingen - where Mr. Moosmann is working - and the oboe factory is in Tubingen, which is where Kreul woodwinds began. Mr. Moosmann is working with many professional bassoonists, and we hope that we are changing the poor image of Kohlert into a very high quality Kreul & Moosmann instrument.
NP: How many people work at the bassoon factory?
BM: Ten altogether, including the office staff. We make about one hundred and fifty bassoons, and maybe five contrabassoons a year. Our current wait for delivery is about six to eight months. Looking towards the future, I can tell you that we don't want to become a large factory; we would like to stay at about our present size. If we wanted to increase production we would either improve our production system or have more workers who work at home. We have, for example, about five people who work at home on our oboes for the Tubingen factory.
NP: I see. Could you tell me how many different models of bassoons you make?
BM: We make four models. One student instrument, two orchestra models, and one soloist/professional model.
NP: What is the difference between the two orchestra models?
BM: The only difference is that one of them has a high D key. This model is played a great deal in Europe, and we sell more of these than the same model without the D key. The difference between the orchestra models and the student model is that the student model has no whisper key though, if a student requests it, we will add it.
NP: What instrument do most professionals buy?
BM: They buy either the orchestra model or the soloist model; the decision is really a matter of professional preference.
HK: Yes. Last week we went to Bayreuth to hear Parsifal. We took some instruments along, and the first bassoonist tried the orchestra model, and then played it for the Second Act. During the intermission he tried the soloist model, but he preferred the orchestra model.
NP: I'd like to ask a few questions about bassoon construction, and would like to begin by asking you about your use of plastic bore and tone hole liners.
BM: We use a plastic liner for the wing and boot joints. Maple is a very soft wood, and it swells up with water. So the E- flat tone hole (i.e. the last one before the bend) is the most dangerous and, for that reason, we use a plastic lacquer for that tone hole. This prevents water from gurgling in this hole.
NP: I'm also curious about your bore design. Heckel makes only short bore bassoons, Alan Fox makes both long and short bore, and I'm wondering which one you make.
HK: We make our OWN bore!
NP: You mean it's not long and it's not short?
WS: I think the Kreul & Moosmann bore is really an independent bore.
NP: O.K. Tell me, what part of the bassoon do you consider to be the most difficult to make?
BM & WS (together): The bocal!![1]
NP: Yes, that's what I thought you might say. First of all, can you explain what different metals are used to make your bocals?
BM: We use two materials. The first is German nickel silver, which is an alloy made of copper, zinc, and nickel. We also use brass, which is an alloy of copper and zinc. Since nickel is a very hard metal, German nickel silver is harder than brass.
NP: Do you find that players have any preferences between the two?
BM: Well, if you want a big sound in the orchestra, you'd probably use German nickel silver. If you were playing chamber music, you'd most likely use a brass bocal.
Of course, there are different ways to make bocals. You can roll the metal and then solder it, or you can spin it. Heckel made bocals by rolling it, saying that the material would be harder and more compact because it must be hammered. But, whichever way you make a bocal, the metal loses its temper when you heat it, so the hammering really doesn't make any difference.
NP: What do you think is the most important thing in making a good bocal?
BM: The most important thing is that the internal bore is as smooth as glass, that it's absolutely perfect. The thickness of the material is also important so that the bocal resonates correctly and, of course, the bocal material itself is very important. Making the curve correctly is also critical.
NP: Have you experimented much with bocals?
HK: Well, when we first started making bassoons, I think the bocals were the worst part of the instrument. So it took a lot of work to arrive at what we do today.
BM: Yes. We are happy with our bocals now, though I plan to make additional experiments with different materials and thicknesses of metal.
NP: How many types of bocals do you manufacture right now?
BM: We make four sizes from each type of metal.
NP: I'm also interested in finding out who does the final tuning of your bassoons. Is it you?
BM: No. Mr. George ter Voert, a very fine bassoonist from the Stuttgart Radio Orchestra, tunes our instruments. He comes about once a week.
NP: How long does he spend with an instrument?
BM: Well, when we first began, he needed five hours! But now it just depends on the instrument. If a bassoon has no problems, he can be finished with it in five minutes.
NP: Can you tell me about the new A-flat contrabassoon you just finished for Mr. Schulze?
HK: Well, Mr. Schulze should tell you about
that!
NP: But before he does, I have to say this is the most people I've EVER interviewed at once!
WS: The contrabassoon. Well, about six or seven years ago, I had an idea for a new contrabassoon which would go down to low A-flat. A year ago, I approached Kreul & Moosmann about making an experimental instrument. They said they would be willing to try it.
BM: Yes. Though at first I just said I would make some tests - I didn't know if it was possible to make this instrument or not.
WS: We started working on the instrument about eight months ago, and I've come to the factory from Vienna three times since then. The first problem was to find the right bore size and boot size, and to make the reamers. Then we had to find the exact position of the tone holes.
NP: How did you find the right tone hole placement?
WS: It was a simple mathematical calculation. But that wasn't exactly right, because of the bend in the bore. So, we made some changes and then we were happy with it.
NP: Is the bocal the same as for any other contrabassoon?
BM: Yes.
NP: Would you make another one?
HK: Well, I think the second one would be a lot easier than the first. Would you BUY one? If so, we would start tomorrow!
NP: Well, not being a bassoonist, I'm sad to say it isn't a necessity in my life! But, in any case, the point is that it's a beautiful instrument, and that you are happy with it.
BM: Yes. Absolutely.
NP: If I may, I'd like to ask a question which occurred to me while reading Heckel's bassoon treatise. Heckel wrote that the "soul" of a bassoon is between the highest tone hole in the wing joint and the G hole/F key. Do you agree?
BM: Yes, that's true. The most important thing is that the angle of these tone holes is absolutely correct.
NP: Can you tell me your opinion of the comment frequently made by bassoonists to the effect that the old Heckel bassoons were the greatest ever made?
BM: The eight thousand series was IT. We've repaired about ten of these in the last year and yes, they are really great.
HK: I think the old Heckels of the twenties and thirties are wonderful. They are probably the best in the world. But I do hope that when we are ten or twenty years older, bassoonists will say that OUR bassoon is the best in the world!
NP: How do you think your bassoons compare to a new Heckel?
[a lengthy pause]
WS: The Kreul & Moosmann bassoon is better than the new Heckel. Every person, every company, has its ups and downs. Myself, I have a Heckelphone from the twenties, and it's great. But the bassoonists I know who have bought new Heckels have problems with certain notes, with tuning, and with tone quality. There is no reasonable relationship between the instrument and its price.
NP: How much does a new Heckel cost these days?
BM: More than twenty-five thousand marks. Our most expensive professional bassoon costs about one third that amount. Our student bassoon is about one fifth the cost of a Heckel.
NP: That's quite a difference. Oh, yes, I wanted to ask you about something Alan Fox said to me before I left for Europe. He was talking about bassoon players as a group, and he thinks they are generally a happy group of individuals, that, compared to oboe players, they are a much happier group. Would you agree?
All: Yes.
HK: Absolutely. We have so many good times, enjoying people like Mr. Schulze.
NP: I take it you don't feel that way about oboe players!!
[laughter from all]
HK: Well, I'll tell you. I've only just met you, but I know already that many oboe players don't have your attitude. Bassoon players are very open-minded, and are usually happy to try another instrument. But oboe players tend to be less open, and are much less willing to give something else a chance. Here in Germany, many oboe players know they are the best.
NP: You mean they THINK they are the best!
HK: Right. They are quite proud of themselves, and they don't see the role of the instrument maker as very important. Fortunately, though, there is a real change of attitude in the younger generation. Their attitude is more like the bassoon players, and more like yours.
NP: Well, I assume that's a compliment, and thank you. Meanwhile, there's one question I'd like to ask you personally, which doesn't concern the bassoon at all. I'm wondering what your advice might be to other women with careers, since you seem to have done so well with yours.
HK: Well, being the co-director of Kreul & Moosmann bassoons, I've learned several things. First, it's important to know when to stay in the background, and when to move to the foreground. I'd say another important thing is for a woman to stay as she is - to keep her personality intact. I'd also say that one has to learn to take advantage of the moments when it's a real advantage to be a woman in the business world.
NP: Tell me, since you are such a young company, what are your hopes for the future?
HK: Well, we hope, of course, that the name Kreul & Moosmann will become famous in the bassoon world. We hope also to stay just the way we are at this moment - to be able to enjoy each other in the future.
Kreul & Moosmann
Lange Strasse 25
D-7050 Waiblingen
West Germany
Hans Kreul oboes: interview with Hans-Joachim Kreul Tubingen, West Germany
NP: Well, here we are at the dinner interview, and now we can talk about the oboe. My first question concerns your plastic bore liners in the upper joint. How did this come about?
HK: We started it about five years ago, and we tested it for about two to three years. There were no cracks. Next, we put it in our oboes which were sent to the U.S., since there are so many different climates there. Now we put it in all our oboes, and last year we began to offer a three-year warranty for cracking on all the oboes.
NP: Could any players tell the difference between an instrument with a bore liner and one without?
HK: No, never. Many professional players have tested these instruments, and not one could tell the difference.
NP: Terrific. Incidentally, is it difficult to make the top joint with the bore liner?
HK: No. The only problem is to find the right material to put between the liner and the wood. You must find the right glue - it can't be hard because then you'd have more cracks than before. The glue must be permanently flexible.
NP: So, if the wood changes, for instance, the glue and bore liner would adjust, too?
HK: Yes.
NP: Since the two most important historical lines of development for the oboe were centered respectively in France and Germany, I'd like to ask how you perceive the differences between these two types of oboes.
HK: Well, the biggest difference is in the sound. The German oboes have a darker, rounder, warmer sound than the French oboes which, to us, sound a bit nasal. Of course, the keywork is also different on our oboes, too - I think it feels a little bit more comfortable than a French oboe.
NP: Would you say this is also true in comparing a German clarinet to a French Boehm system clarinet?
HK: Yes. The German clarinet is darker in sound. Although most American oboists and clarinetists play French instruments, there have been orchestra players who have switched to the German clarinet because they prefer the darker sound. We have a problem in the U.S. in that most players don't know our instruments. I suspect that if they knew them, they would like them!
NP: Do you have any idea how many of your oboes go to the U.S. each year?
HK: About one hundred and twenty. Of these, most are either the student or the top professional model. These instruments usually go to schools and universities; we just don't have any idea how many professional players have seen these instruments.
NP: Do you have any idea how many oboes have been sold altogether to the U.S. over the years?
HK: Not exactly. We have been selling to the U.S. for thirty or thirty-five years. We began with Ben Storch in New York during the mid-fifties and then Mirafone. We have had years where we sold over three hundred oboes to Mirafone.
NP: Do you have any idea how many oboes Ben Storch bought from you?
HK: He bought about forty or fifty oboes a year for about twenty years, through the early 1970s. He used to come to Germany twice a year, and he used to work with us about two weeks each time. He wanted special bore designs, key changes, etc. We have quite a number of letters from him. Our first oboes d'amore were made working together with Mr. Storch.
NP: You know, I've neglected to ask a couple of important basic questions. First of all, how many oboes and clarinets do you make each year?
HK: We make about four hundred oboes, and we make fifteen hundred clarinets.
NP: And how many people work here in Tubingen?
HK: About twenty-five, including home workers. We have home workers near Stuttgart, and one near Freiburg. We send them all the parts, they put the instrument together and then send it to us.
NP: I see. You mentioned earlier that you have worked with a number of professional oboists, and I'm wondering if there are any with whom you are working particularly closely now.
HK: Well, it's very important to listen to what EVERYONE says. If a number of players agree that something should be changed, then we change it. Thinking about individual players, well, one important person is Arthur Jensen, the American oboist who teaches at Salzburg. We've worked with him for ten years, and he plays one of our rosewood oboes.
NP: Yes, his fame precedes him, since I'd already heard that he made the big switch!
HK: Yes. And many of his students play our rosewood oboes, too. Our oboes are also used in many of the German orchestras; Lothar Koch, for instance, plays one. Among the younger generation, many of the first oboists in the German orchestras also play Kreul - Hamburg Opera, Dortmund Philharmonic, Munich Opera Orchestra and many others.
NP: Can you tell me how you were trained to make oboes?
HK: Well, here in Germany, you usually specialize in one area - woodwinds, brasses, or whatever. I learned the woodwind family, but specialized in oboes and clarinets. After two and a half years I made my exam.
NP: Can you tell me what is involved in this exam, and what you have to do to pass it?
HK: Well, you must start at the very beginning of an instrument, turning the wood. You must make all the keys, and all the tools you need.
NP: And how is this exam given?
HK: We have one special school for musical instruments in Germany, near Stuttgart. While you are learning to make instruments at a factory, you go to this school from time to time on a part-time basis. So, it's like an apprenticeship system, and that's the system in Germany as well as in Austria.
NP: So, in order to pass the exam, I gather you must be able to make an instrument from start to finish?
HK: Yes. It usually takes three and a half years to learn all this. Even then, you are usually asked to make one of the simpler instruments - maybe a student model oboe, or a seventeenkeyed clarinet. After you pass this exam, you work for some years. Then later you can try for the Master title of Holzblasinstrumentenmachermeister. But to get this, you must truly be able to make EVERYTHING!
NP: How old were you when you got this title?
HK: Twenty-three.
NP: Do many instrument makers in Germany have this title?
HK: No. Perhaps ten or fifteen, though very few of these are oboe makers.
NP: Oh yes, what instrument did you make for the Master title?
HK: I made a full system German clarinet.
NP: Since you come from three generations of instrument makers, I'm curious as to how much you learned from your father.
HK: I'd say I learned about 30% of what I know from him. I had a Master teacher, Mr. Puchner,[2] and I learned the rest from him.
NP: Looking back on the history of Kreul, can you tell me if there were any particularly bad periods during the history of the company?
HK: Well, my grandfather came to Tubingen during the First World War. He was a violin maker and a bowmaker. He died just before the Second World War. Our production stopped completely during the war. No one in Germany made musical instruments during that time. Then my father started up again after the war, in about 1948 or 1949. There was nothing to start WITH after the war - it was terrible.
NP: So how did your father begin again?
HK: He started by repairing band instruments for the American brass bands in Germany. The Americans gave him cigarettes, and he exchanged the cigarettes for the materials he needed to work on the instruments. They started with repairs, and then began to make some relatively simple clarinets and flutes.
In 1948, everyone in Germany was at point zero. Each person was given forty marks from the government, and that's how we all started again.
NP: Ouch. Let's move on to something a bit more cheery: could you fill me in on your experiments with making a modern Boehm system oboe?
HK: We've made the first one, working with an East German, Mr. Uebel - who owns an old Boehm system oboe - along with Mr. Jensen. I think we will all get together later this year, discuss the problems of the first instrument, and then make some improvements.
NP: Well, a modern Boehm oboe will certainly be an exotic bird! Looking at the more usual production, what models of oboes do you sell the most of?
HK: We make about thirty to forty percent half automatic, and the rest are full automatic system.[3] Many of the student instruments are ring key models, and the professionals usually buy the full plateau instrument.
NP: Do most of your automatic system oboes have the third octave key?
HK: Yes, most of them do.
NP: No wonder you have plastic bore liners. That's a lot of hardware for the first few inches!
HK: Right.
NP: Seeing as many players as you do, I'm wondering if you see any trends in playing here in Germany which you think might indicate future directions.
HK: The trend here is towards a bigger, darker sound. For us, this will mean changes in the top joint.
There are also players who think the oboe shouldn't have as many keys, so that it could vibrate more freely, and sound more resonant.
NP: Yes, but from the acoustical point of view, this makes no sense. The issue here is wall material, and the greatest acousticians in the world agree that it makes less than a two percent difference in the sound of an instrument. This means that you could strap athletic weights around an oboe and the tone quality wouldn't be affected. This also means that a gold flute has no inherent difference in tone quality from a nickel silver flute of the same design. Any difference would be in the quality of craftsmanship, not in the material used. This is why a correctly made plastic bore liner can't affect the tone quality of your oboes, and this is why your players couldn't tell the difference. But this is the PERFECT subject for an argument with many musicians, so I think I'll change the subject! Though, come to think of it, my next question might open a can of worms, too. Well, here goes: how about pitch in Germany?
HK: That's a TERRIFIC problem.
NP: Yes, I know. I just played the Wolpe Oboe Sonata with a piano tuned at 446. In the spirit of compromise, the piano tuner did his best to lower the pitch, and I rushed out to the nearest hardware store so that I could cut off the bottoms of my oboe staples! Since pitch is so high here, how do you deal with this problem?
HK: The pitch in Northern Germany is the highest. Here in Southern Germany, it is usually 442 or 443 - that's the lowest in the country. Of course, pitch varies tremendously from player to player, too. Generally, if I make an oboe for Southern Germany, I make it at 442. If I make it for Northern Germany, I make it at 444.
NP: What a job! But tell me, what kind of staples work best with your oboes?
HK: The best are Klopfer staples, from East Germany.
NP: Excuse my ignorance, but can you play a German oboe with a French staple?
HK: Yes. Glotin, Prestini - they all work, too.
NP: Another question I have deals with the state of instrument repair in Germany. I was told that the situation is quite bad, and that, for example, the Puchner bassoon factory stops making instruments during all of August, and just does repair work.
HK: Yes, that's true. For oboe repair, we have perhaps three or four good repairmen - no more.
NP: So what happens? Do the players come back to you with all their repair work?
HK: Yes. Especially at this time of year, when they are on vacation. In the last four to five weeks, I've been working thirteen or fourteen hours a day doing repair work!
The problem is that oboe repair is so specialized, and also that the fully automatic system is prone to repair problems.
NP: I'd like to ask a few questions about your rosewood oboes. First of all, whose idea was it?
HK: Mr. Jensen's. I think he saw a rosewood Loree, but I think he preferred the tuning and the sound of our oboes. He came to us with some rosewood, and we made the oboe. We're pleased with these instruments, though players sometimes have to make adjustments when they first play a rosewood oboe.
NP: When I played your rosewood oboe, I noticed that you have rubber inserts in the tone holes. What exactly is this, and why do you do it?
HK: It's a mixture of plastic and rubber, and they are inserts which go into each tone hole. Rosewood is rather rough, so the edges of the tone holes are not always even. The insert makes the edge even, so that the pads cover the tone holes exactly.
NP: Does that extra work mean that a rosewood oboe from you costs more than a grenadilla oboe?
HK: About five hundred marks more, yes.
HK: Now I have a question for you!
NP: But since I'm not being interviewed, I don't necessarily have to answer!
HK: How do you like the violetwood oboes at Marigaux?
NP: I think they are great. Unfortunately, though, Mr. Rilba didn't buy much of this wood, and it hasn't finished aging yet. So, despite the fact that I'm on the violetwood "list," I have no idea when the oboe might be ready. I see everyone at Marigaux each summer, and, so far, the answer is always the same: they haven't started it yet!
Of course many players like rosewood oboes these days. Manufacturers are cautious since the softer woods like rosewood tend to crack much more often than grenadilla instruments. But, with the rubber bore liner, you are the only oboe maker who doesn't need to worry. You could make thousands of rosewood oboes, and not one would crack. It's a dream come true!
Hans Kreul
Schwarzlocher Strasse 80-82
D-7400 Tubingen I
West Germany
ENDNOTES
1. Mr. Schulze thought this over and, later, when we were talking about something entirely different, he popped up with "The most difficult part is the reed! "
2. This was Mr. Rudolf Puchner, a cousin of the Puchner of Puchner bassoons. Rudolf Puchner came to Tubingen after World War 11, and worked for Kreul's father.
3. Half automatic refers to those oboes that have independent first and second octave keys - standard on French conservatoire system instruments. With the fully automatic system, one key operates both octave keys.