Topic: Eb4-F4 trill fingering for Mozart

I have a really hard time synchronizing my fingers in the Eb4-F4 trill during the opening phrase of the Mozart 1st mvt. I am currently using the Eb fingering that is in the image.
http://www.idrs.org/IDRSBBS/misc.php?ac … r=5700f22.
To trill, I am picking up my 2nd finger in my left hand and the 3rd finger in my right hand. Is there any other fingerings I can use?

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Re: Eb4-F4 trill fingering for Mozart

I do a down-trill for this.

Play Eb normally: x x o | (x) x x
Play F normally: (you know the fingering)
Trill the right hand fingers of the F fingering (so your "Eb" fingering in the trill is left hand forked Eb with the resonance key)

M.M.A., D.M.A. University of Illinois at Urbana/Champaign: B.Mus. Lawrence University
Bassoon professor at University of Wisconsin Eau-Claire
Maker of the Little-Jake electric bassoon pickup and Weasel bassoon reeds

Re: Eb4-F4 trill fingering for Mozart

Cravenbassoon wrote:

I have a really hard time synchronizing my fingers in the Eb4-F4 trill during the opening phrase of the Mozart 1st mvt. I am currently using the Eb fingering that is in the image.
http://www.idrs.org/IDRSBBS/misc.php?ac … r=5700f22.
To trill, I am picking up my 2nd finger in my left hand and the 3rd finger in my right hand. Is there any other fingerings I can use?

Hi - I do a downward trill like the one Trent posted, but once I go to the forked E-flat I trill using only RH 2. Another option based on the trill you currently use is to play the E-flat with LH 1 +2 and RH 2 + 3 (no 1st finger), and then trill only RH 3, nothing on the left. That trill is in tune but requires a lot of support as the F will sound a little bit softer than the E-flat. Good luck!

Last edited by levesque_montreal (2014-01-04 06:21:51)

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Re: Eb4-F4 trill fingering for Mozart

If you finger E-flat4 this way: x x o | o x x, trilling with RH 3rd finger will work. That fingering is also useful for the many times when you have to play E-flat and F very quickly throughout the concerto. BTW, that fingering is better for slurring to E-flat.

Christopher Weait,
Principal bassoon, Toronto Symphony (1968 - 1985)
IDRS Honorary Member; Emeritus professor Ohio State University
www.weaitmusic.com

Re: Eb4-F4 trill fingering for Mozart

levesque_montreal wrote:
Cravenbassoon wrote:

I have a really hard time synchronizing my fingers in the Eb4-F4 trill during the opening phrase of the Mozart 1st mvt. I am currently using the Eb fingering that is in the image.
http://www.idrs.org/IDRSBBS/misc.php?ac … r=5700f22.
To trill, I am picking up my 2nd finger in my left hand and the 3rd finger in my right hand. Is there any other fingerings I can use?

Hi - I do a downward trill like the one Trent posted, but once I go to the forked E-flat I trill using only RH 2. Another option based on the trill you currently use is to play the E-flat with LH 1 +2 and RH 2 + 3 (no 1st finger), and then trill only RH 3, nothing on the left. That trill is in tune but requires a lot of support as the F will sound a little bit softer than the E-flat. Good luck!

Actually, I typically do this (return only the 2nd finger of the right hand)
And my every day fingering for Eb is without first finger right hand anyway.

We're the only instrument with these alternate fingering problems...

M.M.A., D.M.A. University of Illinois at Urbana/Champaign: B.Mus. Lawrence University
Bassoon professor at University of Wisconsin Eau-Claire
Maker of the Little-Jake electric bassoon pickup and Weasel bassoon reeds

Re: Eb4-F4 trill fingering for Mozart

You'll find the solution in the book INCONIS-The contrabassoon, History and technique

http://www.musicdispatch.com/product/vi … d=105&
http://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/sm/7528213
http://www.musicshopeurope.com/il-contr … 00800.html
https://www.compumusic.com/raimondo-inc … 788176.htm
http://www.halleonard.com/search/search … ds=inconis
http://www.lastanzadellamusica.com/frma … O=EDF|ED=2
http://www.libreriamusicale.com/product … _id=250186
http://www.bladmuziekshop.nl/the-contra … ml?cPath=1



Catherine

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Re: Eb4-F4 trill fingering for Mozart

Trent wrote:
levesque_montreal wrote:
Cravenbassoon wrote:

I have a really hard time synchronizing my fingers in the Eb4-F4 trill during the opening phrase of the Mozart 1st mvt. I am currently using the Eb fingering that is in the image.
http://www.idrs.org/IDRSBBS/misc.php?ac … r=5700f22.
To trill, I am picking up my 2nd finger in my left hand and the 3rd finger in my right hand. Is there any other fingerings I can use?

Hi - I do a downward trill like the one Trent posted, but once I go to the forked E-flat I trill using only RH 2. Another option based on the trill you currently use is to play the E-flat with LH 1 +2 and RH 2 + 3 (no 1st finger), and then trill only RH 3, nothing on the left. That trill is in tune but requires a lot of support as the F will sound a little bit softer than the E-flat. Good luck!

Actually, I typically do this (return only the 2nd finger of the right hand)
And my every day fingering for Eb is without first finger right hand anyway.

We're the only instrument with these alternate fingering problems...

I actually started using X X () | X X X and I trill with the first two fingers in the left hand. I have to bring down the pitch, but after many run troughs, it became very natural. It is much more synchronized. Thank you for all of the suggestions!

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Re: Eb4-F4 trill fingering for Mozart

I agree and use Stephane's fingerings. Most simple and best in tune, with a little effort like he suggests.

But, Catherine? I have the Iconis book - that's nothing but contrabassoon fingerings. I don't get it.

Harry Searing
Bassoon, Contrabassoon, Heckelphone
Faculty: Manhattan School of Music Precollege Division (NY), Montclair State University (NJ) &  CUNY (NY)
President, LRQ Publishing - featuring the bassoon music of Francisco Mignone

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