Topic: buying a bassoon CraigsList/Gumtree

Hello,

Is it safe buying a bassoon from CraigsList or gumtree? I'm looking to upgrade my bassoon and came across CraigList London. I did a search for 'bassoon' in 'musical instruments - by owner'

http://london.craigslist.co.uk/search/m … mp;maxAsk=

From looking at this list on today 11/Feb/2013 there are for example, three Fox 240 bassoons at between 1360 GBP to 1620 GBP, a Puchner 23 at 1860 GBP and a Fox 101 for 3800 GBP. As far as I can make out these prices are around a third the price of the same second hand instrument from a music shop which in turn is obviously cheaper than a new instrument.

Is it that London is brimming with bassoons that people are fed up with and this is the going rate for direct selling where you perform the transaction more or less in a hotel carpark? While it is very tempting part of me is saying 'I wouldn't go there' as the prices seem too good to be true. I'm not sure really how I would test out the bassoon at any rate. Anyhow has anyone any experience of buying a bassoon from CraigsList or gumtree?

-M

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Re: buying a bassoon CraigsList/Gumtree

Be careful! Here is Spain there is something called Segundamano and it is brimming with fraudulent listings. I have seen many listings with incredibly low prices that are fake, often the "con artist" will take pictures off eBay items and use the same description. That being said, I have purchased a few horns off of Craigs list and was quite happy. I was on vacation in Oregon and purchase an excellent Fox 222d for my daughter, for $2200. There was a listing close to my inlaws house, the guy came over for me to try the horn and I bought it on the spot. Craigs list is to buy local, if you live in England, check it out. They do not have the same protection as eBay, because they are not meant for other than " buy local". Careful of those ebay sellers that want to complete the deal out of ebay, i have a friend that was scammed that way. I have two other stories, a bassoonist in our conservatory here had a seller send them the horn to try BEFORE payment and she is the happy owner of a Moosmann bassoon, the price was excellent and they purchased the horn after trying it.  The second is the father of a bassoonist friend of mine was waiting for the arrival of a great horn he has sent a money order for 500€. Well, it's been two years and he is still waiting.

Principal bassoonist, Orquesta Sinfonica de Galicia, A Coruña, Spain. Bassoonist, bassoon dad, bassoon husband, bassoon uncle, bassoon brother and bassoon son.

Re: buying a bassoon CraigsList/Gumtree

I find all this pretty incredible.  One thing I noticed,  all the horns showed one picture only, the horn in the case.  Over here you would demand to see pix of each piece, and with front and back views.  Also, one of the Heckels looked like grenadilla or polypropylene, not sure which,  and one of the Foxes was on what looked very much like Quinn the Eskimo's carpet (he's a reputable seller on eBay in Seattle).  This makes me wonder if some of these are "borrowed" pictures.  I would be wary.  Also, no phone numbers, and you quite often get phone numbers on Craigslist over here.  Too good to be true, I'm afraid.  (You could always contact Howarth's in London and ask them what they think.  I think you'd get an honest opinion )

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Re: buying a bassoon CraigsList/Gumtree

I don't know about the others but that Puchner bassoon has been appearing on the London Craigslist on and off for several years now.
It is hard to believe that it would not have sold by now. It is probably not worth the risk.

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Re: buying a bassoon CraigsList/Gumtree

Yes you are correct, that is quinntheeskimos's rug! That same sellers pictures are often used in Spain. Most or all of those listings look suspect to me. Look at eBay.uk for an idea of prices, always slightly higher, but it should be similar to eBay and Craigs in the US. I have to say there are many deals in the US. I purchased three horns in total off of Craigs in the US, but with local  sellers.
I got a beater bassoon off eBay UK, really cheap as a project over a year ago and just finished fixing it up this past week, (long story, November 2011), you get what you pay for, it was an excellent learning experience, so be carefu. I am dubious of all the Craigs UK listings. I also want to stress not to make any deals outside of eBay, those are also scams.

Principal bassoonist, Orquesta Sinfonica de Galicia, A Coruña, Spain. Bassoonist, bassoon dad, bassoon husband, bassoon uncle, bassoon brother and bassoon son.

Re: buying a bassoon CraigsList/Gumtree

Hi,

Thanks for the tips and comments. Yes they all look a tad suspicious to me to be frank. Around two weeks ago I made one enquiry for a bassoon on gumtree, complete with fairly detailed questions and the advert was gone by the next day and I haven't seen it since.

Has anyone tried http://www.netinstruments.com/bassoons/. Since each listing has a bassoon serial number the adverts to me make it that bit more secure and they also recommend escrow for the transaction which can only be good. Somehow I get the feeling myself though I'll be won't be buying online - it'll be either in a shop or from someone I know.

-M

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Re: buying a bassoon CraigsList/Gumtree

Hi MonnigBlower

I can confirm that all of the bassoons advertised on Craigslist, and most of Gumtree, are fraudulent. A lot of the bassoons on Netinstruments.com are also fraudulent and so are some of the bassoons that come up on eBay.

I know this because these criminals used to regularly steal bassoon pictures and the text description from our website ( www.DoubleReed.co.uk ) and list them on Craigslist London, Gumtree, Netinstruments and eBay at a silly price. And these bassoons we still had in possession when they were listed for sale elsewhere... They have ceased to steal our photographs now as we have started to put our trademark on our photographs of bassoons. But it is clear they are stealing other well meaning people's photographs instead.

These criminals are targeting the bassoon market because bassoons are relatively high value instruments. Buyer beware.

It can be amusing if you reply to one of these adverts - they invariably say trials are welcome, but that the bassoon is with them on some remote Scottish island which is a six hour boat trip to get to! Surely easier just to pay and have them ship it to you? Don't expect it to ever turn up though... And don't expect there to be anyone there to meet you if you actually make that six hour boat trip. I have my doubts if they are even located in the UK.

If you wish to invest in a good quality used bassoon we would be happy to let you have one on approval for a week before you decide whether you wish to buy it or not. This way you know you're safe!

Check out our website here:

www.DoubleReed.co.uk

Best wishes

Oliver
Double Reed Ltd.

Oliver Ludlow

Re: buying a bassoon CraigsList/Gumtree

I would stay away from Craig's List or Ebay unless you KNOW the individual that is selling the instrument.

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