Topic: Speeding up the Tonque

I've been working on this for a few weeks, but try as I might, I just can't get my tongue to go fast enough to complete quick passages.  I'm wondering what techniques work best for you in getting fast, quality, single tonguing.  tongue

Tanner Holst
University Bassoonist
Utah

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Re: Speeding up the Tonque

Hi BassoonGuy:

Here is one idea you might want to try  http://www.doublereed.org/IDRSBBS/viewtopic.php?id=1590  Kent

Dr. Kent Moore
Principal Lecturer In Bassoon and Theory
Northern Arizona University

Re: Speeding up the Tonque

I have my students do this exercise that Jim explained, but add doing them in three lengths:  short, medium, long.   I have them start this at quarter at 60 and have them moved up a notch a week.   I tell them to pick a different note each day and do only about 5 minutes.   Obviously the faster you go, it's harder to distinguish between the lengths.

Mark

Mark Ortwein
Indianapolis Symphony Orchestra
OrtweinWoodwinds.com

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Re: Speeding up the Tonque

Bassoon Guy, Check these elements: Avoid moving tongue to far back during the stroke; Move strike point (place where tongue meets reed) closer to tip of tongue; Avoid reducing air speed during tonguing; Practice fast tonguing in short groups of notes; Identify notes that are easier to tongue fast, gradually begin to use notes that are not easy to tongue. Use a lighter reed. C. Weait

Christopher Weait,
Principal bassoon, Toronto Symphony (1968 - 1985)
IDRS Honorary Member; Emeritus professor Ohio State University
www.weaitmusic.com

Re: Speeding up the Tonque

I teach my students to (1) move tongue as short a distance as possible; (2) use as little of the tongue as possible, and (3) tongue as lightly as possible (thanks to Mark Popkin for this).  I start double tonguing with HS students via TIK-KIT as soon as possible. (again, thanks Mark Popkin)

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Re: Speeding up the Tonque

Looking at Jim Jeter's earlier (2006-08-14 11:20:54) post about double tonguing, his important final paragraph reminded me of this: double tonguing, (really FAST double tonguing) should be thought of as really fast tenuto tonguing NOT as really fast staccato tonguing. The individual notes should be as long as possible. The listener will hear the notes as being "staccato" because of their rapidity. I recommend practicing fast tonguing with the longest possible note lengths.

Christopher Weait,
Principal bassoon, Toronto Symphony (1968 - 1985)
IDRS Honorary Member; Emeritus professor Ohio State University
www.weaitmusic.com

Re: Speeding up the Tonque

Having never learned double tonguing, I talked about this string with a horn-playing friend of mine.  She suggested using the phrasing "DUH-GUH" rather than "TIK-KIT".  She said that this was easier for her and her students.  Is this the way brass players learn double tonguing, or has she explained an easier way to learn it?

Bryan Cavitt
Bassoonist, Elkhart (IN) Municipal Band; Bassoon Dad

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Re: Speeding up the Tonque

It is possible to train language without a bassoon, without a cane. It is possible to do it in any place and at any time. Quickly say syllables      tu-tu-tu-tu-tu-tu....................................

Mikhail

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Re: Speeding up the Tonque

tu-tu-tu-etc..I can go about 136 in 16th notes....TIK-KIT-TIK-KIT I can approach 200 for 16ths.  Not often I need that, but I play for one conductor who is a strong believer in FAST as a musical statement LOL, and I find I need to double tongue something on just about every concert to keep up with him.

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Re: Speeding up the Tonque

Hi Bryan:

I think the different syllables are a matter of preference.  I know some prefer one over the other.  I think with the TIK-KIT" there is less tongue movement and it is more forward in the mouth than with "DUH-GUH" so I prefer it.  But in trying it now if I say Doo instead of Da then it seems to work nicely "for me."  But now as I continue to say it I can get the Duh Guh further forward too and it may work.  I think they are subtle differences.  Kent

Dr. Kent Moore
Principal Lecturer In Bassoon and Theory
Northern Arizona University

Re: Speeding up the Tonque

Da-Ga, Di-Gi and Ti-Ki work the best for me.    What some don't think about is that the pitch goes a little lower when you double tongue, so syllables that keep your tongue higher helps keep the pitch up.

Mark

Mark Ortwein
Indianapolis Symphony Orchestra
OrtweinWoodwinds.com

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