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Herzberg Bevel Without Drying?

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Home Forums Reeds The Bassoon Reed Room Herzberg Bevel Without Drying?

This topic contains 21 replies, has 10 voices, and was last updated by  HansBassoon 1 year, 2 months ago.

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  • #111713

    Mark Ortwein
    Participant

    Trent- Try using an Exacto blade instead of a razor blade. You’ll have much more control.
    Bob – I’d love to see Jim’s beveling tool. Next time I see you I’ll ask about it!

    Mark

    #111714

    Trent Jacobs
    Participant

    Mark, by razor I did really mean exacto blade. (probably have used both…) At any rate I’m very happy with the results I’m getting now and I wasn’t happy with the results I was getting then, so I’ll stick with what I’ve got for now!

    There really isn’t any disassembly involved in Herzberg’s method, since no wires go on until after the bevel. I get a better matching bevel with this technique so it’s worth having to take it off the mandrel for a while. I also actually “bevel” (I hesitate to call it that) all the way into the blades a little bit. Just a few passes with sand paper to get the sharp edge off the inside of the edges of the blades. This has seemed to help prevent my blades from slipping. I don’t think you can really do this as well before forming the tube round.

    #111715

    Guest
    Participant

    I use the Herzberg bevel for all of my reeds, bassoon, and contra bassoon. I usually wait one 8 hour period before doing the bevel. By that time, the cocoon has completly dried out and it is easy to do the bevel at 7 mm onto the edge of a sanding block, as Norman Herzberg taught it. Gerald Corey

    #111716

    Anonymous

    Herzberg was very adamant about letting the reed set for at least two weeks after forming before doing the bevel. He read the Heinrich article on bassoon reeds and wanted the reed to set to take the stress out of the wood. He would take a piece of paper, roll it up and then let it go. It would open and become flat again. If he took the same piece of paper, rolled it up, put a rubber band around it and let it be for two weeks when he took the rubber band off the paper would stay round. He believed the same was true with cane. I wonder if the bevel effect will go out of a reed that is not opened shortly after it is beveled. I often play on reeds I formed and beveled several years before I open them up.

    Who knows??

    Bob Williams

    #111698

    Guest
    Participant

    Hello Kent, Actually to do the Norman Herzberg properly you must 1st form the tube with the cane soaked in your usual manner. Then if you have allowed 12 hours for the cocoon reed to dry you can remove wire I (if applied) and you can then do both halves of the FORMED tube section on a sanding block for 7 mm forward and back. This creates a void shaped like an equilateral triangle out of the very tips of the ends of the tube, to make the “Simple mechanical advantage” to reeds using the Herzberg bevel. Of course, when you re-soak the reed and add wires III, II, and a new I , you must then use your forming pliers to squeeze extra strongly at the butt end of the reed for that void to come against the actual mandrel shank, with no leak possible. The strength of this plier action is transferred through the vascular bundles of the cane from reed butt end, to tip of reed, so that once the tip has been clipped OPEN you will have for that reed the 4 basic improved playing charateristics of every reed having the Herzberg bevel. On no account should a bassoonist try to sane the un-formed tube section of a piece of cane and expect to get the same fine resultants that a player using the bevel on a totally formed reed tube will always accomplish. Sincerely, Gerald Corey, Ottawa

    #111717

    Anonymous

    Here is a direct quote from one of Herzberg’s essays on reed beveling that was sent to the IDRS List on November 30, 1999. He wrote at least three explanations of this technique. If you have access to the old replies you can look them up. I can send them to anyone who can’t find them.

    “When the blank that has been scored has dried for two weeks on the mandrel and the end is rigid, it can be beveled, aligned, wired, wound with binding of some kind, coated, and reamed (in that order) it is ready for chopping the tip. Soak the whole blank and chop the tip to your predetermined length.”

    This is Herzberg’s answer to his question about why a reed should be left to rest after forming and before beveling.

    17.) How long should a reed blank dry? Why? What example does Heinrich use?
    “A blank should dry for at least two weeks to stabilize (relax) the changes made in the cane when forming the tube. A piece of paper rolled in a tube will spring back when first rolled up. If kept rolled for two weeks it will stay rolled. You would not want to move into a house built of wood chopped down yesterday.”

    Bob Williams

    #111718

    HansBassoon
    Participant

    I realize this reply is about 8 years after this prior discussion but I figured it wasn’t worth making an additional post about it. I was able to access the JW player file for the video of the Herzberg bevel a couple months ago, recently, however, I’ve noticed that many browsers have began (Or already have) stopped their support for flash player videos. Is there another way to access the video? Thanks again!

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